Thursday, June 17, 2010

Fwd: Q & A from dina's forum - "(Quantity of) Service"

hare krsna

stumbled upon this very interesting question... just to share with all of you...

haribol!

yr sevant,

dina

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Dina-Anukampana Das [mailto:dinaanu@yahoo.co.uk]

Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 11:44 AM

To: lnt_youth@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Q & A from dina's forum - "(Quantity of) Service"

 

From Dina's Forum http://www.dina.on.to

---------------------------------------

Qustions & Answers Section

 

Subject:  Service (Quantity Of..)

 

 

Question:

 

Prabhu,

 

Does a man who does more service to the lord generate

more good karma than a man who does service but not as much?

 

Does the lord discriminate based on hours spent in

service or the number of good deeds done?

 

thanks

ash

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

Hare Krishna

 

Dear Ashwin prabhu

 

Please accept my humble pranams. Sri Sri Guru-Gauranga

jayataha! Sri Sri Radha Govinda jayataha! All glories

to Srila Prabhupada, by whose sincere devotion and

unceasing labour, the Vedic scriptures have once again

risen to brighten the world! Jaya Srila Prabhupada!

 

Thanks for your question. To answer your question

properly, I shall have to make some explanations about

karma and also about the complexities involved in

determining the consciousness of the person involved

in doing the seva.

 

The golden rule would be Quality not Quantity. But

further than this, if we want to benefit from the

Gita's secrets, then we must endeavour to learn how to

Transcend the laws of nature and not merely continue

in our entanglement by exploiting the laws of nature

as we understand their workings better.

 

God reveals in the Gita that in the material world,

everthing is influenced and controlled by the Three

Modes of Material Nature, namely sattva (goodness),

rajas (passion) and tamas (ignorance). There are many

illustrative examples (clothes, food, speech etc)

given in the pages of the gita to help create in us an

awareness of these energies that are sublimely keeping

all of us in illusion and unknowingly bound to the

cycle of birth and death.

 

The same act could produce different reactions, for

instance "Charity given out of duty, without

expectation of return, at the proper time and place,

and to a worthy person is considered to be in the mode

of goodness." (BG 17.20)[see

http://www.vedabase.net/bg/17/en for online gita];

"But charity performed with the expectation of some

return, or with a desire for fruitive results, or in a

grudging mood, is said to be charity in the mode of

passion." (BG 17.21); and "And charity performed at an

impure place, at an improper time, to unworthy

persons, or without proper attention and respect is

said to be in the mode of ignorance." (BG 17.22)

 

So all three types of persons will think "I have done

some charity." However, in accordance with the modes

they have been contaminated or conditioned by, they

each get different results accordingly. So to answer

your question directly, it's not what you wd call 'a

straight line graph' relationship. There are many

variables involved. Eg. "When one dies in the mode of

goodness, he attains to the pure higher planets of the

great sages." (BG 14.14); "When one dies in the mode

of passion, he takes birth among those engaged in

fruitive activities; and when one dies in the mode of

ignorance, he takes birth in the animal kingdom." (BG

14.15)

 

(Even in ordinary law, a crime is defined not only by

both the specific forbidden act that is committed by

the accused, but the definition must include the

particular frame of mind or 'intention' he had while

committing the act which makes the act become

criminal... for eg. if you drop a flower pot on

someone by sheer accident, you can not be guilty of

murder, even if you caused his death...)

 

It is a very vast topic, but pls note that in material

consciousness, we generally think only in terms of

good or bad. But Gita teaches us to think 'laterally'

instead... you see, all three persons who die in any

of the three modes are born again... relatively

speaking one may be born in a first class prison cell

while another in the third class... but nonetheless

all are prisoners... so gita teaches us to think in

terms of Material or Spiritual quality-wise....

Normally we only analyze quality in terms of different

Material Quality. Of course if it is in the mode of

material goodness (which incidentally is the best of

the 3 modes because it is easier for one to come to

the brahman, spiritual platform, from the mode of

goodness because it gives us illumination by spiritual

knowledge) one will still be born again by virtue of

that karmic reaction.

 

The pivotal factor between What consists of Material

Quality and what's Spiritual in quality has to do with

(strangely!) enjoyment and pleasure... Ha HA!!

Spiritualists are not against happiness and pleasure -

No - they seek the highest happiness. Just as a fish

can't find happiness on land, nor should one search

for water in a desert, in the same way, spiritualists

seek pleasure not at the sensual, mental, intellectual

nor egotistical platforms - rather they seek 'brahma

saukhyam tu anantam' that spiritual pleasure which is

un ending, eternal. (see last line of translation -

http://www.vedabase.net/sb/5/5/1/en ) [btw, pls note,

Lord Rshabhadev (Krishna) is worshipped by persons of

the Jain faith.]

 

It is the very nature of the soul to seek pleasure

eternally ('aananda mayo abhyasat' - vedanta sutra).

However when he the soul forgets his relationship with

God, he begins to think himself the creator of

whatever he owns or gets, and thus he thinks himself

to be the enjoyer of all that is 'his'. However one

who knows that he is but a part of the whole, and that

he shd find pleasure by pleasing God, who is the

Supreme Whole, then that is called spiritual pleasure

-= finding pleasure by being a servant who brings

pleasure to God. When the lord is pleased, we are most

deeply pleased, for the lord sits in our hearts as

paramatma, and we were designed to give pleasure to

Him voluntarily.

 

 

 

So ANYTHING, even so called seva, done for one's own

pleasure, or for the unknown reason of wanting to

enter swarga loka in the next life to enjoy even

higher standars of sense-pleasure than what is

available anywhere on this planet, then it is

material. But anything done solely for the pleasure of

the Lord or the PURE devotees of the Lord, that is

absolutely spiritual.

 

Therefore service done within the 3 modes will bind us

to rebirth. A simple eg. If in this life i give you

charity when you need it, next life i will be bound to

come back to receive that benefit from you when i need

it. But all things done out of lord for the personal

enjoyment and pleasure of the Supreme Person DO NOT

bear any karmic reaction, for karma cannot touch God.

He creates and administers the law of karma to control

us, the dirty hearted people of the material world. In

the spiritual world all people are pure and free from

envy and selfishness, therefore they need no laws to

bind them. They are bound by their common deep love

for the Lord.

 

I hope the above has given you some higher kind of

answer, that instead of calculating and hoping to get

different types of rewards from our pious deeds

(punya) we shd strive for bhakti and intensifying our

relationship with God, and that is attained by fixing

ones mind and intellect on the lord (BG ch 8:7) [BG

4.21 - "Such a man of understanding acts with mind and

intelligence perfectly controlled, gives up all sense

of proprietorship over his possessions, and acts only

for the bare necessities of life. Thus working, he is

not affected by sinful reactions." BG 9.22 : "But

those who always worship Me with exclusive devotion,

meditating on My transcendental form-to them I carry

what they lack, and I preserve what they have."]

 

It is very hard to really understand the law of karma

and how it operates, because the reactions come back

to us over several lifetimes, and there are so many

other intervening forces and influences. Therefore the

lord declares: "The intricacies of action are very

hard to understand. Therefore one should know properly

what action is, what forbidden action is, and what

inaction is." (BG 4.17)

 

 

However at the same time, he tells us the clue how to

escape the karma: "There is no work that affects Me;

nor do I aspire for the fruits of action. One who

understands this truth about Me also does not become

entangled in the fruitive reactions of work." He

repeats the same in the famous verse BG. 4.9 (My

'janma' and My 'karma' are divine, not munane') "One

who knows the transcendental nature of My appearance

and activities does not, upon leaving the body, take

his birth again in this material world, but attains My

eternal abode, O Arjuna."

 

BG 2.51 : "By thus engaging in devotional service to

the Lord, great sages or devotees free themselves from

the results of work in the material world. In this way

they become free from the cycle of birth and death and

attain the state beyond all miseries [by going back to

Godhead]."

 

I hope the above has shed some light to answer yr

question.

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

PS

 

If i may add another comment. Generally, the mood of

your question appears to be based on a very very

common wrong assumption that most people have about

religion and its purpose. This is usuall because we do

not know much of God personally in the aspect of

Bhakti.

 

This wd stem from not knowing the difference between

spirit and matter, or more specifically, not knowing

the difference between Pure Bhakti and mundane

religion.

 

 

We loosely make statements like, 'All religions teach

you to do good.' Not true. True religion tells you

that goodness is the best part of the material world,

but only surrendering to God out of love is the goal

of life, the only thing that can grant us eternal

life, entering the kingdom of god in a spiritual body

in the next life. True religion teaches us obedience

to God in personal loving surrender with a view to re

establishing our lost, intimate personal relationship

with Him.

 

 

You may be surprised to hear that religion is just

another form of materialism according to Vedic

philosophy. It has to be. Because it serves as the

half-way house between gross materialism (the pursuit

of sensual gratification) and pure spirituality

(unadulterated, spontaneous, eternal love for The

Supreme Personality of Godhead.) The purpose of

religion in general is 4-fold:

(a) Dharma - piety or praying to nature or god because

we fear for our existence and cannot control the

forces of nature etc.

(b) Artha - we strongly desire economic development,

therefore 'in god we trust'

(c) Kaama - why do we need economic success - because

we want to enjoy sense gratification, the so called

luxuries of life.

and finally when we get sick of all that and see that

all our endeavours do not lead to the bliss that we

are seeking, out of frustration we seek

(d) Moksha - liberation or salvation - escaped from

the prison of the material body in the material

universe.

 

However all for of the above are based on one's

selfish, personal pursuit of happiness, either of

one's own body and mind, or extended to the relatives

and countrymen related to one's present physical body.

What God wants and our personal reciprocation with Him

does not come into the picture.

 

If religion did not offer the fruits of material gain

as bait (such as monetary rewards, good education,

birth in a rich family, beautiful wife or children etc

etc) then how would any materialistic being ever be

attracted to begin praying etc. Gita declares that

EVERYONE begins his spiritual approach to God because

of wanting one of fou things: 1. Help in financial

crisis 2. solution to serious problems 3. sheer curios

nature asking why why why & 4. out of wisdom. (If in

this life, we feel ourselves as not being motivated by

these factors, we shd know then that in some previous

janma, we must already have passed thru that stage.

 

Therefore, when one graduates from materially

motivated religion, then he comes to Paro Dharma, the

transcendental, completely pure, true 'religion' of

the soul itself, not of the body, and that is called

Bhakti. The Srimad Bhagavatam is a unique scripture,

for it is the only scripture which, right from the 2nd

verse itself (out of 18 000 verses) casts out all

forms of materially motivated religiosity and focuses

directly and solely on the direct path of developing

one's spontaneous love for the Supreme Person, God.

 

The path to prema begins when one understands that

beyond this temporary body and its false

identifications and relatives, is the soul, the self,

and the soul's true identity is 'jivera swarupa hoy

krsna nitya dasa' the eternal loving servant of krsna

(god).

 

Another common misconception that obstructs us from

even beginning our spiritual life or even desiring to

begin our spiritual life by surrendering to God, is

that we think that once we have firm faith that God

does indeed exist, our pride in our own faith makes us

think that we have reached the end of the journey, and

we console ourselves by looking down upon the poor

atheists who still doubt god's existence. But this is

far from the truth. We have not even begun the

journey... and our pride may lead us to a big fall...

 

Actually there are 9 stages in the Ladder from

Shraddha to Prema:

 

1. shraddha - FIRM and absolute faith in the

Personality of Godhead and that we should surrender

fully unto Him

 

2. sadhu sanga - seeking out the assoiation of

devotees who are more experienced and factually

advanced in stages of bhakti higher than what we have

experienced.

 

3. bhajana kriya - becoming initiated into the process

of worshipping the Lord by a self-realized bona fide

guru.

 

4. anartha nirvrtti - having received the Holy Name of

God from the guru and having vowed before the Fire

Sacrifice to never commit sin again (meat eating,

gambling, intoxication, illicit sex), then comes this

stage which means 'clearing out the unwanted dirty

things from the heart.

 

5. nishtha - 'steadiness in devotional sadhana' - this

means our sadhana stablizes, we are not attracted by

mundane distractions that make our sadhana (regulated

daily devotional practices eg. Japa, mangalarati etc.)

 

 

6. ruchi - one finally begins to get a real taste for

chanting the Names of the Lord and for devotional

service.

 

7. asakti - one becmes spontaneously and deeply

attached to one's daily devotional services performed

(similar to ordinary people's spontaneous attachment

to their favourite hobby or TV program.)

 

8. bhava - they are drawn deeper and deeper into the

service because it gives them pleasure spontaneously

and eventually transcendental emotions (bhava -

preliminary stage of love of God) begin to arise every

now and then while they are engaged in their seva

(primarily nama japa)

 

9. prema - spontaneous, ecstatic pure love for God -

in this stage, one is in trance experiencing spiritual

ecstasy 24 hrs a day and directly associates with and

participates in the Lord's eternal pastimes in the

spiritual world even though still within this body.

This is the most coveted stage, the ultimate

attainable for a human being.

 

 

With love,

 

 

Dina

 

 

---

hare krishna hare krishna

krishna krishna hare hare

hare rama hare rama

rama rama hare hare

 

 

 

           

           

                       

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