stumbled upon this very interesting question... just to share with all of you...
haribol!
yr sevant,
dina
-----Original Message-----
From: Dina-Anukampana Das [mailto:dinaanu@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 11:44 AM
Subject: Q & A from dina's forum - "(Quantity of) Service"
From Dina's Forum http://www.dina.on.to
---------------------------------------
Qustions & Answers Section
Subject: Service (Quantity Of..)
Question:
Prabhu,
Does a man who does more service to the lord generate
more good karma than a man who does service but not as much?
Does the lord discriminate based on hours spent in
service or the number of good deeds done?
thanks
ash
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Hare Krishna
Dear Ashwin prabhu
Please accept my humble pranams. Sri Sri Guru-Gauranga
jayataha! Sri Sri Radha Govinda jayataha! All glories
to Srila Prabhupada, by whose sincere devotion and
unceasing labour, the Vedic scriptures have once again
risen to brighten the world! Jaya Srila Prabhupada!
Thanks for your question. To answer your question
properly, I shall have to make some explanations about
karma and also about the complexities involved in
determining the consciousness of the person involved
in doing the seva.
The golden rule would be Quality not Quantity. But
further than this, if we want to benefit from the
Gita's secrets, then we must endeavour to learn how to
Transcend the laws of nature and not merely continue
in our entanglement by exploiting the laws of nature
as we understand their workings better.
God reveals in the Gita that in the material world,
everthing is influenced and controlled by the Three
Modes of Material Nature, namely sattva (goodness),
rajas (passion) and tamas (ignorance). There are many
illustrative examples (clothes, food, speech etc)
given in the pages of the gita to help create in us an
awareness of these energies that are sublimely keeping
all of us in illusion and unknowingly bound to the
cycle of birth and death.
The same act could produce different reactions, for
instance "Charity given out of duty, without
expectation of return, at the proper time and place,
and to a worthy person is considered to be in the mode
of goodness." (BG 17.20)[see
http://www.vedabase.net/bg/17/en for online gita];
"But charity performed with the expectation of some
return, or with a desire for fruitive results, or in a
grudging mood, is said to be charity in the mode of
passion." (BG 17.21); and "And charity performed at an
impure place, at an improper time, to unworthy
persons, or without proper attention and respect is
said to be in the mode of ignorance." (BG 17.22)
So all three types of persons will think "I have done
some charity." However, in accordance with the modes
they have been contaminated or conditioned by, they
each get different results accordingly. So to answer
your question directly, it's not what you wd call 'a
straight line graph' relationship. There are many
variables involved. Eg. "When one dies in the mode of
goodness, he attains to the pure higher planets of the
great sages." (BG 14.14); "When one dies in the mode
of passion, he takes birth among those engaged in
fruitive activities; and when one dies in the mode of
ignorance, he takes birth in the animal kingdom." (BG
14.15)
(Even in ordinary law, a crime is defined not only by
both the specific forbidden act that is committed by
the accused, but the definition must include the
particular frame of mind or 'intention' he had while
committing the act which makes the act become
criminal... for eg. if you drop a flower pot on
someone by sheer accident, you can not be guilty of
murder, even if you caused his death...)
It is a very vast topic, but pls note that in material
consciousness, we generally think only in terms of
good or bad. But Gita teaches us to think 'laterally'
instead... you see, all three persons who die in any
of the three modes are born again... relatively
speaking one may be born in a first class prison cell
while another in the third class... but nonetheless
all are prisoners... so gita teaches us to think in
terms of Material or Spiritual quality-wise....
Normally we only analyze quality in terms of different
Material Quality. Of course if it is in the mode of
material goodness (which incidentally is the best of
the 3 modes because it is easier for one to come to
the brahman, spiritual platform, from the mode of
goodness because it gives us illumination by spiritual
knowledge) one will still be born again by virtue of
that karmic reaction.
The pivotal factor between What consists of Material
Quality and what's Spiritual in quality has to do with
(strangely!) enjoyment and pleasure... Ha HA!!
Spiritualists are not against happiness and pleasure -
No - they seek the highest happiness. Just as a fish
can't find happiness on land, nor should one search
for water in a desert, in the same way, spiritualists
seek pleasure not at the sensual, mental, intellectual
nor egotistical platforms - rather they seek 'brahma
saukhyam tu anantam' that spiritual pleasure which is
un ending, eternal. (see last line of translation -
http://www.vedabase.net/sb/5/5/1/en ) [btw, pls note,
Lord Rshabhadev (Krishna) is worshipped by persons of
the Jain faith.]
It is the very nature of the soul to seek pleasure
eternally ('aananda mayo abhyasat' - vedanta sutra).
However when he the soul forgets his relationship with
God, he begins to think himself the creator of
whatever he owns or gets, and thus he thinks himself
to be the enjoyer of all that is 'his'. However one
who knows that he is but a part of the whole, and that
he shd find pleasure by pleasing God, who is the
Supreme Whole, then that is called spiritual pleasure
-= finding pleasure by being a servant who brings
pleasure to God. When the lord is pleased, we are most
deeply pleased, for the lord sits in our hearts as
paramatma, and we were designed to give pleasure to
Him voluntarily.
So ANYTHING, even so called seva, done for one's own
pleasure, or for the unknown reason of wanting to
enter swarga loka in the next life to enjoy even
higher standars of sense-pleasure than what is
available anywhere on this planet, then it is
material. But anything done solely for the pleasure of
the Lord or the PURE devotees of the Lord, that is
absolutely spiritual.
Therefore service done within the 3 modes will bind us
to rebirth. A simple eg. If in this life i give you
charity when you need it, next life i will be bound to
come back to receive that benefit from you when i need
it. But all things done out of lord for the personal
enjoyment and pleasure of the Supreme Person DO NOT
bear any karmic reaction, for karma cannot touch God.
He creates and administers the law of karma to control
us, the dirty hearted people of the material world. In
the spiritual world all people are pure and free from
envy and selfishness, therefore they need no laws to
bind them. They are bound by their common deep love
for the Lord.
I hope the above has given you some higher kind of
answer, that instead of calculating and hoping to get
different types of rewards from our pious deeds
(punya) we shd strive for bhakti and intensifying our
relationship with God, and that is attained by fixing
ones mind and intellect on the lord (BG ch 8:7) [BG
4.21 - "Such a man of understanding acts with mind and
intelligence perfectly controlled, gives up all sense
of proprietorship over his possessions, and acts only
for the bare necessities of life. Thus working, he is
not affected by sinful reactions." BG 9.22 : "But
those who always worship Me with exclusive devotion,
meditating on My transcendental form-to them I carry
what they lack, and I preserve what they have."]
It is very hard to really understand the law of karma
and how it operates, because the reactions come back
to us over several lifetimes, and there are so many
other intervening forces and influences. Therefore the
lord declares: "The intricacies of action are very
hard to understand. Therefore one should know properly
what action is, what forbidden action is, and what
inaction is." (BG 4.17)
However at the same time, he tells us the clue how to
escape the karma: "There is no work that affects Me;
nor do I aspire for the fruits of action. One who
understands this truth about Me also does not become
entangled in the fruitive reactions of work." He
repeats the same in the famous verse BG. 4.9 (My
'janma' and My 'karma' are divine, not munane') "One
who knows the transcendental nature of My appearance
and activities does not, upon leaving the body, take
his birth again in this material world, but attains My
eternal abode, O Arjuna."
BG 2.51 : "By thus engaging in devotional service to
the Lord, great sages or devotees free themselves from
the results of work in the material world. In this way
they become free from the cycle of birth and death and
attain the state beyond all miseries [by going back to
Godhead]."
I hope the above has shed some light to answer yr
question.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
PS
If i may add another comment. Generally, the mood of
your question appears to be based on a very very
common wrong assumption that most people have about
religion and its purpose. This is usuall because we do
not know much of God personally in the aspect of
Bhakti.
This wd stem from not knowing the difference between
spirit and matter, or more specifically, not knowing
the difference between Pure Bhakti and mundane
religion.
We loosely make statements like, 'All religions teach
you to do good.' Not true. True religion tells you
that goodness is the best part of the material world,
but only surrendering to God out of love is the goal
of life, the only thing that can grant us eternal
life, entering the kingdom of god in a spiritual body
in the next life. True religion teaches us obedience
to God in personal loving surrender with a view to re
establishing our lost, intimate personal relationship
with Him.
You may be surprised to hear that religion is just
another form of materialism according to Vedic
philosophy. It has to be. Because it serves as the
half-way house between gross materialism (the pursuit
of sensual gratification) and pure spirituality
(unadulterated, spontaneous, eternal love for The
Supreme Personality of Godhead.) The purpose of
religion in general is 4-fold:
(a) Dharma - piety or praying to nature or god because
we fear for our existence and cannot control the
forces of nature etc.
(b) Artha - we strongly desire economic development,
therefore 'in god we trust'
(c) Kaama - why do we need economic success - because
we want to enjoy sense gratification, the so called
luxuries of life.
and finally when we get sick of all that and see that
all our endeavours do not lead to the bliss that we
are seeking, out of frustration we seek
(d) Moksha - liberation or salvation - escaped from
the prison of the material body in the material
universe.
However all for of the above are based on one's
selfish, personal pursuit of happiness, either of
one's own body and mind, or extended to the relatives
and countrymen related to one's present physical body.
What God wants and our personal reciprocation with Him
does not come into the picture.
If religion did not offer the fruits of material gain
as bait (such as monetary rewards, good education,
birth in a rich family, beautiful wife or children etc
etc) then how would any materialistic being ever be
attracted to begin praying etc. Gita declares that
EVERYONE begins his spiritual approach to God because
of wanting one of fou things: 1. Help in financial
crisis 2. solution to serious problems 3. sheer curios
nature asking why why why & 4. out of wisdom. (If in
this life, we feel ourselves as not being motivated by
these factors, we shd know then that in some previous
janma, we must already have passed thru that stage.
Therefore, when one graduates from materially
motivated religion, then he comes to Paro Dharma, the
transcendental, completely pure, true 'religion' of
the soul itself, not of the body, and that is called
Bhakti. The Srimad Bhagavatam is a unique scripture,
for it is the only scripture which, right from the 2nd
verse itself (out of 18 000 verses) casts out all
forms of materially motivated religiosity and focuses
directly and solely on the direct path of developing
one's spontaneous love for the Supreme Person, God.
The path to prema begins when one understands that
beyond this temporary body and its false
identifications and relatives, is the soul, the self,
and the soul's true identity is 'jivera swarupa hoy
krsna nitya dasa' the eternal loving servant of krsna
(god).
Another common misconception that obstructs us from
even beginning our spiritual life or even desiring to
begin our spiritual life by surrendering to God, is
that we think that once we have firm faith that God
does indeed exist, our pride in our own faith makes us
think that we have reached the end of the journey, and
we console ourselves by looking down upon the poor
atheists who still doubt god's existence. But this is
far from the truth. We have not even begun the
journey... and our pride may lead us to a big fall...
Actually there are 9 stages in the Ladder from
Shraddha to Prema:
1. shraddha - FIRM and absolute faith in the
Personality of Godhead and that we should surrender
fully unto Him
2. sadhu sanga - seeking out the assoiation of
devotees who are more experienced and factually
advanced in stages of bhakti higher than what we have
experienced.
3. bhajana kriya - becoming initiated into the process
of worshipping the Lord by a self-realized bona fide
guru.
4. anartha nirvrtti - having received the Holy Name of
God from the guru and having vowed before the Fire
Sacrifice to never commit sin again (meat eating,
gambling, intoxication, illicit sex), then comes this
stage which means 'clearing out the unwanted dirty
things from the heart.
5. nishtha - 'steadiness in devotional sadhana' - this
means our sadhana stablizes, we are not attracted by
mundane distractions that make our sadhana (regulated
daily devotional practices eg. Japa, mangalarati etc.)
6. ruchi - one finally begins to get a real taste for
chanting the Names of the Lord and for devotional
service.
7. asakti - one becmes spontaneously and deeply
attached to one's daily devotional services performed
(similar to ordinary people's spontaneous attachment
to their favourite hobby or TV program.)
8. bhava - they are drawn deeper and deeper into the
service because it gives them pleasure spontaneously
and eventually transcendental emotions (bhava -
preliminary stage of love of God) begin to arise every
now and then while they are engaged in their seva
(primarily nama japa)
9. prema - spontaneous, ecstatic pure love for God -
in this stage, one is in trance experiencing spiritual
ecstasy 24 hrs a day and directly associates with and
participates in the Lord's eternal pastimes in the
spiritual world even though still within this body.
This is the most coveted stage, the ultimate
attainable for a human being.
With love,
Dina
---
hare krishna hare krishna
krishna krishna hare hare
hare rama hare rama
rama rama hare hare
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